Lucifer?

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Permalink Reply by Lyssa Dragonshadow on October 15, 2008 at 5:32pm

The first thing to understand, is that when Christianity spread into Europe, especially the british isles with the strongest pagan roots, and up the norway areas, also very strong in their pagan beliefs, they demonized the pagan gods, and equated them evil and the Devil the help convert the pagans. Much the same as Yule became Christmas, Ostara became Easter, Samhain became Halloween. The Christians even changed from worshipping on Saturdays to Sundays because the pagans worshipped on Sundays in honor of the sun god.

I cannot say specifically that the two lucifers you refer to are the same or not, as I haven't studied that aspect specifically, but there is a good chance they are, seeing as that was the methods of the christians. The christian Devil has many names, even Samhain (pronounce by them as Sam-hane, where we pronounce is sow-en). IT was all in an effort to demonize our gods to make ancient pagans more susceptable to conversion.

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Permalink Reply by Lark on October 15, 2008 at 5:53pm

The Lucifer in Pagan theology is NOT the same as the Christian Lucifer nor of the Devil.

In Stregha, which is a form of Italiam Witchcraft, Lucifer is a Roman God and the personification of Venus, the Morning Star..the name meaning "Light Bringer". Lucifer and Diana were the parents of Aradia who the Stregha believe is the Goddess and teacher of Witches. A good resource on the subject is "Aradia, Gospel of the Witches" by Charles Leland.

-Lark-

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Permalink Reply by Lyssa Dragonshadow on October 15, 2008 at 6:00pm

Very nice, that doesn't mean that the christians didn't associate the name with their Devil to help demonize him for conversion. The did the same thing with Pan and Cerunnunos. (sorry if I spelled that wrong, I can never spell it unless I am reading it). They did the same thing with most of the pagan pantheons. Hades, Poseiden, they took all the old pagan gods, associated them with evil, to make it easier to convert us.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying you are wrong. Technically, since the Devil is a christian creation, then it isn't possible for the Roman God Lucifer to be the same being. I don't personally believe in the Devil, at least not as Christians believe in him.

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Permalink Reply by Lark on October 15, 2008 at 6:06pm

But the Lucifer in Christian belief is drawn from Hebrew sources, not from Roman ones. The Lucifer that is the Christian Satan is talked about in the Old Testament, long before Roman culture and Hebrew culture crossed paths. So it is unlikely that in this case they are the same or that the Lucifer from Roman belief was demonized by the Christians. Certainly that did happen in many cases, but it does not appear to be that way in this case.

-Lark-

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Permalink Reply by Lyssa Dragonshadow on October 15, 2008 at 6:10pm

OK, As I said in my first post, I don't know much about that aspect of it, so I will bow to your knowledge on this one.

I will point out one point, that you may be able to explain though, That the roman pantheon is just the greek pantheon renamed. And since the hebrews had a lot of greek influence, is that a possible source for the "similarity." Don't forget that there is a lot of roman prior to christian roman.

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Permalink Reply by Lark on October 15, 2008 at 6:24pm

No, no, no. The Roman pantheon is NOT the same as the Greek pantheon. True each pantheon had Gods that were seen by their respective cultures as being in charge of certain areas of responsibility, but the Gods were not one and the same.

One of the things that Romans tended to do was to look at a God in a different culture and say "what does this God do". Once they had that job description they would say, "Oh, then they are similar to ____" It doesn't mean that they necessarily saw the Gods as being the same.

And Greek influence in the Middle East, especially Israel was actually much later than the stories of the fall of Lucifer in the Old Testament. The story of Lucifer comes from a period in Hebrew writings that well predates Greek influence in Israel or even the rise of Rome as a culture.

-Lark-

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Permalink Reply by Lilybet on October 15, 2008 at 7:52pm

The Catholic Church indeed did things like deifying the Virgin Mary to represent the "pagan" Goddess, moving holy days, proclaiming other cultures gods were the equivalent as Satan/Lucifer etc. to convert the people of the British Isles. However, I do not think that the one you speak of is the same. Generally satan and supreme good and evil aren't represented in "pagan" cultures

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Permalink Reply by mike on October 16, 2008 at 9:17am

i would like to know the same and would like to now why they call him the same. never figured it out either plz explain would make us all better .

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Permalink Reply by Sue Lynn on March 14, 2009 at 4:14am

I just would like to say that there is no Christian Lucifer. Lucifer is mentioned by God in the bible, Yes, But so are you -Men and Women.

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Permalink Reply by Lady of the Graveyard on March 14, 2009 at 5:39am

Hebrew / Canaanite Lucifer is still praised in Judaic Morning Service. They demonised Canaanite Lucifer (Shahar) to their own twisted angel story, as Luciferianism also pre-dates Christianity - so Satanism technically is not a Christian invention, either.

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Permalink Reply by Jamie jodoin on July 17, 2009 at 6:18pm

lucifer iis mentioned by Jesus himself as a real being. so who and what lucifer is amystery. but lucifer is real. according to ray buckland satanism began in the middle ages

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Permalink Reply by Doria Dieckmann on September 22, 2009 at 6:12pm

Merry Meet and Blessings to everyone..I believe that Lucifer is a real being capable of malicious and destructive influences, but if you leave yourself open to them, they CAN take hold.I believe in the teachings of Jesus, and if he says Lucifer existed, then he did! The bible held alot of information from us, and alot was deleted during it's translation, because of the Church's influence at the time, so alot is really unknown as to the real truth about things. All we can do is search in our OWN hearts for the real answers and when we practice our craft, always do it with love and understanding that God created all the magickal and spiritual realms around us and the beings that dwell within. Blessed Be..Lady Doria

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