Reincarnation
I talked to some people recently about reincarnation. They believe that when reincarnation occurs, you die and a spirit like a little ghost comes out of you and inhabits another person in another time. This would entail memories of the previous life(s) If this were true, the reincarnation process would get old really quick. A lot less people would be having babies mainly because why would anyone want to repeat all that emotional baggage?
I believe that when a person dies the essence of what they are unravels like hemp rope. A lot of the person breaks down but some ropy chunks remain intact. This is evident because physically, people look alike, or maybe someone has an extreme talent at an early age. Look at musical child prodigies or autistic kids that have incredible photographic memories or artistic talent. Ask them how they do it and the reply usually is “I just can.” They seem to have been born with these gifts or physical attributes because they were. It was the luck of the draw. The essence doesn’t come back in a tight little manila envelope. It is a mish mash of congruent from the whole universe making it highly unlikely to reconfigure the whole package. The essence of what you are right now is the result of a universal blender. Your consciousness as you know it, is only specific to your current form. When you pass away, your consciousness will precipitate. The hardest thing I had to come to grips with is that when I die, I will have no control of what happens. I’m still exploring this concept. I hope that my best qualities will pass on and be useful..
I believe that when a person dies the essence of what they are unravels like hemp rope. A lot of the person breaks down but some ropy chunks remain intact. This is evident because physically, people look alike, or maybe someone has an extreme talent at an early age. Look at musical child prodigies or autistic kids that have incredible photographic memories or artistic talent. Ask them how they do it and the reply usually is “I just can.” They seem to have been born with these gifts or physical attributes because they were. It was the luck of the draw. The essence doesn’t come back in a tight little manila envelope. It is a mish mash of congruent from the whole universe making it highly unlikely to reconfigure the whole package. The essence of what you are right now is the result of a universal blender. Your consciousness as you know it, is only specific to your current form. When you pass away, your consciousness will precipitate. The hardest thing I had to come to grips with is that when I die, I will have no control of what happens. I’m still exploring this concept. I hope that my best qualities will pass on and be useful..
Tags: reincarnation
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by J on -
That is a really great question, I'm glad you brought that up too! As an example I'm studying HH the Dalai Lama. When a Dalai Lama dies, monks are charged with finding his reincarnation. They look for signs in his dead body. In the last Dalai Lama, the monks discovered the head had turned to face a specific direction. The monks believed this was where the reincarnated one resided. They take certain items from the previous Dalai Lama whith them as a test to verify the new Dalai Lama who they look for in small children. The child might pick up some pen or tool or something and use it in a familiar way to the monks. The current Dalai Lama reportedly saw a small box that belonged to the previous Dalai Lama. He said his teeth were in there and they were! So I believe that somehow through something such as his DNA, that the electrons might flow a certain way in his brain much like a car on the highway or like a computer program.
Sometimes, aspects of memory of a previous incarnation may not be as thoroughly unravelled, and we get a new life with some old memories of skills still intact (genius kids who amaze us), or bits of knowledge that come to us somehow without a lot of study.
Great question!
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Permalink Reply by Whiteheart on -
This is a good one!!!
I agree with what your saying in theory. Energy, the human spirit can not be destroyed. However, it will slowly loose strength or energy itself persay.
So when a person dies physically the energy goes on. But to where ???
Some people are lucky enough or unlucky to remember past lives or talents they may have had.
In my opinion we learn from past lives and are given back what we give (kharma)
I also believe that our universe is multi dimensional and different levels of time. Ask a physics proffesional and they will lecture you for days, decades on theories.
that's my take
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Permalink Reply by J on
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:D
Time is a completely different ball of wax. Talking about this also made me wonder that you didn't have to be dead to transfer your enrgy. You could transfer DNA or energy or what have you to someone else, and then decades after you've died that energy is in someway transferred to another unborn(?) being. Like finding finger prints on a drinking glass from the Titanic
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Permalink Reply by John O'Leary on -
I'm going by memory here of a concpet that someone introduced me to a long time ago, so I may be off in some specifics in my reiteration of this concept, but as I remember it he said something about a naturally occurring grouping of souls traveling their way together toward their final destination.
Picture if you will a group of souls all traveling throughout their many lives together-
As souls from the group die, the broken peices of these dismantled souls are placed in a sort of soul bank where peices can be selected from this bank of pieces of numerous soles and re-assembled in a manner fitting to where the group is going to form the birth of a new soul configuration to be introduced to the group.
The group remains intact and whole in this way. energy is neither created nor destroyed. And true soul mates (members of the same sole group) when they find eachother under the right circumstances, will know they have been travelling together for eons. At times (as pieces of souls are seperated at death and re-assembled in birth), when the circumstances are ripe and the necesary peices available, a soul will come back in very close approximation to it's original or some past form, often bringing with it the potential for past life memory or perhaps even an extraordinary wisdom as they have already been through this world at least once in this formation.
This explanation may have to be interpreted slowly, as I don't know how clearly it has come across.
But it seemed a logical response when I heard it to explained many soul phenomenon.
Has anyone else heard of this, perhaps you could better explain.
If you want to look further into this, This idea came to me through Mikio Sankey- you may want to look him up. He's an interesting fellow. Hope I spelled his name right.
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Permalink Reply by Lady of the Graveyard on -
I will be moving it this time but can we please put discussions in the appropriate place?
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Permalink Reply by Frater Ego Mos Teneo on -
One idea I would like to bring to the table is this:
If I were to cut off your leg, would you still be you? If I were to cut off all of your limbs would you still be you? If I were to disable your brain removing thought, would you still be you? If you die, are you still you?
Perhaps what is "you" is not what you experience here in this life. Perhaps what we are here is simply a vessel that contains only a small part of who we are (higher self). Perhaps the death that we all experience in this life is not what we perceive it to be.
If we were to consider ourselves to be living in a 2-dimensional world, we can see only those 2 dimensions. Lets say "Truth" presents itself to us as a sphere, we see it only in 2 dimensions and we define it as a sort of guiding path. Perhaps when we die, what we see as "Truth" changes or elaborates as we descend into this 3rd dimension. The "Truth" that was once seen as a 2-dimensional Circle, now becomes seen in its true shape, a sphere.
The point being, what we individually see as true very well may be only a small portion of truth if it is true at all.
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Permalink Reply by Arie Willow on -
One important thing to keep in mind when discussing reincarnation is that the Traditional Eastern view of it, and the New Age view of it are radically different. In religions like Buddhism etc fully realise that eternal reincarnation leads to the problem of the eternal return. In a nutshell this means that you are caught in a circle and will eventually repeat every single thing exactly as it occurred previously. The goal of such faiths is to stop reincarnation. To escape the cycle of the eternal return.
What exactly reincarnates in Buddhism is an underlying reality which is below the concious personality, by several layers. The psychological structures that Buddhism holds to exist are rather complex and I won't pretend that I understand them. However I do recall that the doctrin that your personality is a transitory thing, is a key part of their worldview.
In the Buddhas account of spiritual progress the ability to recall your past lives is one of the last powers you gain before reaching Nibbana. As such I suspect that most Buddhists would view claimed past life memories with great suspicion, unless they came from someone who showed other signs of such a high level of spiritual progress.
A lot of new Age movements however view reincarnation as a good thing. This is clearly a reaction to the linear view espoused by the Abrahamic Religions where you are born, die and are judged. End of story so to speak. Existence in modern Western society, which is a paradise when compared to pretty well everything that has come before it, may also have something to do with this.
I Know that I fall into this camp. I have tried to accept the Truths of the Eternal return and the Buddhist Nobel truths, but been unable to do so. Simply put my life is sufficently good that I can imagine doing it all again, and trying things out in a somewhat different way then I have in the current life. I saw an interesting sumation of this at one point. Which went somthing like this. First you must live a life which is a masterpiece. This takes practice, and many failed attempts. What you do then is up to you, but there are three basic choices:
1) Retire (this is the traditional Goal of Buddhism)
2) Teach Others (this is the goal of Tibetan Buddhism)
3) Continue creating new and varied masterpieces. (this I suspect is the new age goal)
At the moment I am leaning to some combination of options 2 and 3. Note that 3 is very much a Western notion of reincarnation which arose in the nineteenth century occultism.
To me the moral imperative of Reincarnation is this:
You will inherit the Earth. So if you want to be born in a paradise then you had best make sure that you push the world towards that state before you die.
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Permalink Reply by John O'Leary on
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Regarding the concept I posted earlier ( naturally occuring grouping of souls and there constuents), I wanted to throw out some ideas that have entered my head since re-considering the implacations of such an idea. Please keep in mind, These thoughts were not part of anything explained to me by Mikio Sankey, just a fun stretch of the immagination.
In discussing this grouping I seemed to remember there being groups of 12- don't know if that's important, but the arrangement he described was triangular with the apex being associated with this common soul bank I had descibed earlier. This became more important to me as I began to ponder the role of this triangular shape against all of the natural circular and cyclicle movements implied by the observation of the universe.
I began to see this formation as extending infinately which I am assuming was implied, and yet this did not fit theoretical needs, nor did it fit well against the circular movements of nature.
I began then to consider the number twelve and it's implications as well as the functionality implied by a triangular structure.
First Arranged the triangles with sides against one another in the form of a wheel- this was circular,, but there was little motivation for movement- the circulation in this form in and of itself would be static.
I then inverted the triangles to form a concentric cirle outside my current circle- apex's facing away from one another. I thought to myself it looks natural but to what purpose.
I began to consider the purpose of the grouping and the function implied in it's constant re-arrangement of it's constituents.
Could they be similair in their function to codons present within DNA? If this was true, this would certainly explain the need for the constant re-arrngement of the groups constituents- to what end, I'm not sure. But potential for movement within the concentric circles was now no longer static, and the reaction now potentially self perpetuating.
but there must be something driving these reactions- even if there is no order to their existance. so I began to consider the concepts of yin and yang and the origin of all things. is it posibble that rather than seeing the groups as triangles, I could arrange them as pyramidal in shape, arranged into a sphere encompassing all things with yin at its core and yang encasing the sphere. This would leave enough space to intermingle the substantial, insubstantial, and connect all things within the sphere to eachother as well as to yin and yang. this way it could truly be said that from two came the three and the three gave birth to the thousand things. All arranged between yin and yang, reacting and inter communicating with one another via the space between spaces forever.
This is just me drawing out a conclusion perhaps to extremes, but I had a lot of fun in doing so, and thought it may stir some interesting conversation- even if you see holes in this arrangement. At least were all thinking.
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Permalink Reply by J on
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This is all 100% true.
To clarify the reincarnation I speak, of refers to essence. When I see the word "soul" I believe this to be what the current composition experiences in the senses in the body and the sensations on the outside of the being or what your current form is feeling.
Even if you were incinerated to the point of no ash left or your body was locked in a hermetically sealed vault so that nothing of you could get out in the open. You have walked this earth and interacted. You have left your essence somewhere (ie…breathing, a sneeze, your waste...etc), a minimal amount of which will be consumed by an insect or animal or bacteria, (mating and having children too) thus returning it to life in some way.
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Permalink Reply by J on
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I've read your profile, and I'd like to understand. Just so I don't jump to a conclusion or come across as arrogant or crass in some way, would you mind enlightening me?
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Permalink Reply by J on
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Other questions for you if you don’t mind:
You say on your profile you believe in 7 elements and a number of other areas of existence you call Worlds:
What are the seven elements?
When you say other areas of existence how do these other Worlds correlate to you? How do they correlate to this World?
Does the Afterlife and Reincarnation have some bearing on nareeth?
Thanks for your patience.
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Permalink Reply by Arie Willow on
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If my soul has no affect on my personality. And conversely my personality has no effect on my soul. then it follows that there is no soul. Or in any case it seams reasonable for me to act on this assumption.
Once I assume no soul. A whole lot of things become logical conclusions including: Reincarnation is false, once you die that's it. Following A spiritual path is pointless. Ethics is for fools, who like not getting what they want. All in all as a hard materialist I only have to worry about what can happen to me in the here and now. So any crime that leads to self gratification is worth doing, provided that the chance of getting caught is sufficiently small.
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